The logic of impeachment

Finnegan has a very impressive post about the logic of impeaching George W. Bush for spying on Americans in violation of FISA: Put Your Modus Where Your Ponens Is.

Finn hammers home a point that can't be stressed forcefully enough or too often: Impeachment for FISA is a no-brainer. There's no question the president broke the law, and there's no question that his offense is a serious felony that he committed in his official capacity as POTUS. There are no nagging questions about whether his misconduct could be dismissed as a personal matter, or whether his misdeeds rise to the level of national importance. Nor is there any doubt that Congress has a duty to impeach any president who commits crimes on this scale--the alternative would be to put the president above the law.

Only practical questions remain: Do Democrats have the political power and the popular support to impeach George W. Bush. Right now, the answer is clearly no. However, the 2006 elections might drastically alter the balance of power in Washington. If and when they do, we should be ready. That means keeping the impeachment discussion alive until justice can be done.

Comments

[The Phantom]

World War 2 lasted a long time. The Civil War lasted a long time.

Centuries would be vastly longer, but I would not focus on that. I would focus on what is the most effective way to crush the threat to our civilization. Who knows, maybe it will take 50 years off my pessimistic calculation.

[gordo]

Phantom--

You state that those who favor impeachment all favored impeachment from day 1 of the Bush presidency. That's absolutely false. As I stated, I did not favor impeachment until I learned of outright, deliberate lawbreaking that was not known at the time of the last election.

"Rethink your position," "Please grow up," and "That's stupid" are not convincing arguments.

You want to set aside constitutional limits on the presidency for a period of centuries, less 50 years. What would the civilization we preserved be like, after those centuries of aggrandized executive power had passed?

All of this is based on your assertion that the killing of 3,000 Americans establishes the terrorists as a greater threat than the 3 great powers who formed the fascist axis, or the outright revolt of half of the states. I'll leave it to others to decide who is being more reasonable, and who is letting his fear inhibit his powers of reason.

One more thing. If the stakes are really as high as you say, and our very civilization is at risk, then get up from your keyboard and enlist.

[Squashed Lemon]

World War 2 lasted a long time. The Civil War lasted a long time.

Posted by: The Phantom | February 28, 2006 at 11:53 PM

WWII european front started with German invasion of Poland in 1939. US entr the war in 1941. Nazi army collapses by late 1943. The asian front is 1943-1945.

approximately 3-4 years each front.

The American Civil War (1861–1865)

Length of current Iraq invasion: 3 years, with Iraq just entering civil war phase.

(The only type of war that is longer is "war of independent. Occupation vs. occupier. or religious war. Vietnam 16 yrs., Protestant vs. catholic 40 yrs.)

see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War

Please dunk your head in cold water now. preferably until you turn blue.

[Lemon]

Well, from my vantage point in Brooklyn, the types that are babbling about impeachment now wanted to impeach GWB the day he took office. Its complete f***ing bullshit.

Posted by: The Phantom | February 28, 2006 at 11:31 PM

from vantage point of my computer chair, yer a dick. And your chimpie in chief will go down as easily as you throw vacuous facts.

[squashed]

The world changed on September 11. If your worldview didn't change that day, you're not thinking. You're just agreeing with your damned friends.

Posted by: The Phantom | February 28, 2006 at 10:47 PM

No fundamentals change after 9/11. In fact it underline the necessity of all that has been trampeled by the dry drunk monkey. (Has any of his action increase security? or has it drain resource, increase vulnerability, create misery, reduce cooperation and goodwill,.. etc.?)

[The Phantom]

--No fundamentals change after 9/11--

And that says it all. The Republicans say that the libs have a " pre 9/11 mindset " and there is your proof. Thanks for being so honest.

[The Phantom]

--from vantage point of my computer chair, yer a dick--

Nice. But not surprising

[Lemon]

And that says it all. The Republicans say that the libs have a " pre 9/11 mindset " and there is your proof. Thanks for being so honest.

Posted by: The Phantom | March 01, 2006 at 08:54 AM

The Fundamental HAS NOT changed after 9/11.

Moron still gets us kill. Transparent and clean leadership still matters. Incompetent and corrupts players will create damage. LYING to people DOES matter. Torture DOES indeed create more problem than solving. Peace and Justice are still what world order is about, not basic school yard thuggery.

Did Fox news propaganda stop Iraq civil war? Did Bushco lying stops his poll slide? Did Bushco bully foreign policy solve anything?

Did that coke head chimp solve anything? Did you see the long term trend of national budget?

9/11 does not change world military balance, repeal law of economics or makes breaking laws ok.

[The Phantom]

How did " moron still get us kill " in January - September 2001?

Would you claim that Clinton had " transparent and clean " leadership? Keep in mind that he had no-bid Halliburton deals ( Kosovo ) and had questionable deals with China ( Loral ) etc etc.

Al Queda and other Islamofascists attacked us on 9/11 but also before. So you think that " peace and justice " has the slightest connection to what that gang is all about?

You criticize Fox, but has Fox ever been caught in the kind of scandal that CBS's Dan Rather got snared in ? Or Jayson Blair? Are you ok with the bias of PBS and NY Times but against that of Fox only?

9/11 was an eye-opener for all those with eyes to see. If you choose not to learn its lessons, that's your issue.

I'll crucify Bush where needed--spending one big area where he deserves it--but we are much better off than we would have been had the unstable and dishonest Al Gore had been President during this period. The strange Electoral College rules saved US democracy when they denied this guy the Presidency, on that we can all agree.

[Multiplicity of will]

Posted by: The Phantom | March 01, 2006 at 12:49 PM

nice pointless rambling.

9/11, china, loral, halliburton, PBS...

good grief, I am dealing with a rambling gizzard.

[Eli]

The strange Electoral College rules saved US democracy when they denied this guy the Presidency, on that we can all agree.

Nope.

[The Phantom]

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/9/29/25139.shtml

MOW: above is for your education. If your contention is that its not true, I'd like to see a little proof.

[Laughing character]

Posted by: The Phantom | March 01, 2006 at 01:16 PM

you start quoting 'Newsmax now'? lol. this is sad.

[The Phantom]

Do a search in the nytimes.com or a hundred other sites and its there to see. You guys really arent interested in any inconvenient facts are you?
" lol " haw haw haw

[gordo]

Phantom--

Great. Wingnut Whack-a-Mole. Beat him on one point, and up comes another non-sequitor to whack. It's pointless, because if I did try to chase down the documents that Newsmax refers to (but doesn't give official designation for, conveniently), you'd just come back with Chappaquiddick, or Ethyl Rosenberg, or the Bildebergers, or Trilateral Commission...

It's about as interesting as debunking one crop circle after another at a MUFON convention, and about as productive. Stick with the topic or concede the point.

[The Phantom]

Gordo

Are you an alternate personality to some of the others?

Don't believe Newsmax, don't believe Fox, don't even believe the NY Times. What do you believe? The Noam Chomsky Gazzette?

You boys really are so far " out where the buses don't run " ( Hat tip to that Fox radio guy )

[SL]

Posted by: The Phantom | March 01, 2006 at 03:38 PM

sure. listening to Fox news and quoting newsmax. and you wonder why you have to spin hard about civil war in Iraq.

I give you prediction. 6 months from now, you have to spin hard why the average troop casualty is about 10/day and why war in Iraq is costing $130B instead of $96B for 2006 budget.

so better get ready... you have 6 months to start thinking the spin.

[The Phantom]

The Phantom lurks late and speaks straight. Remember that.

Your homework assignment, for you New Yawkahs, is to listen to the John Batchelor Show tonight and every M-F from 10pm to 1am on WABC 77am. Its on their website too.

It's international in nature, and if you have a deep interest in what's going on re terrorism, the war, international affairs, it is must listening.

All jokes aside, I recommend it very highly.

[Green lantern]

We are free, but not to be evil, not to be indifferent to human suffering, not to profit from the people, from the work created and sustained through their spirit of political association, while refusing to contribute to the political state that we profit from. We must say no once more. Man is not free to watch impassively the enslavement and dishonor of men, nor their struggles for liberty and honor.

-Jose Marti

[Tommyknocker]

When the Neocon bullshit implodes, and its well on its way to doing that, their leaders and enablers will be tried for treason.