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September 27, 2006

George Allen, I'm looking at you

, originally uploaded by rougerouge.

It's really time for George Allen to drop out of the Virginia senate race.

Pillars of the community are accusing him of using unprintable racial slurs in the 1970s, and he keeps denying it.

Now, his former teammate says that Allen put a deer's head in a black family's mailbox:

Sabato's assertion came on the heels of accusations by Dr. Ken Shelton, a radiologist who was a tight end and wide receiver for the University of Virginia in the early 1970s when Allen was quarterback. He said Allen not only used the n-word frequently but also once stuffed a severed deer head into a black family's mailbox.

George Allen's racism was shocking white Virigians in the seventies:

Mr. Allen, a Virginia Republican whose re-election campaign has been knocked off balance by the accusations, said Monday that he did not remember ever using the term and that “it is absolutely false that that was ever part of my vocabulary.”

Mrs. Hawkins, who described herself as a rural Virginia housewife and an active Democrat, said in an interview Tuesday that she heard Mr. Allen use the slur repeatedly at a party on election night in 1976. She said Mr. Allen used the term while deprecating the intelligence of the black players on the Washington Redskins football team, which Mr. Allen’s father coached. Recalling remarks about its star running back, Larry Brown, Mrs. Hawkins said that Mr. Allen “started in effect bad-mouthing him, saying what a shiftless you-know-what” he was.

She said she remembered the conversation because she was a big fan of the team and was shocked. She said Mr. Allen’s statement on Monday was “just plain a lie.” [NYT]


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I see your point and agree that politically motivated racism is a whole different bucket of catfish than regular ol' societal racism. I just don't think you'll ever be able to garner votes for a truly progressive party - which I don't see either as coming anywhere close to being any time soon - from people who are so easily frightened by the brown horde. Not any time soon.

Actually, immigration is one of the issues on which Americans are surprisingly tolerant. Polling data on amnesty doesn't suggest Americans are afraid of brown hordes; on the contrary, it suggests they recognize illegal immigrants as an integral part of modern society that deserves to have its contributions recognized.

Alon Levy,
I'm generalizing a bit much. I've found that despite it all most folks are pretty decent. They may not want to think too hard about racism or sexism or classism or any other social ill, but they really don't want anyone hurt just because they're "different". They got things to do, ya know? Gotta feed their kids and pay their bills, and they know, hey, so do most folks, regardless of skin color or what have you.

I'm talking about the hardcore few, the ones that take that normal background-radiation racism that infects American culture to the extreme as a matter of daily living. You're not gonna win over those people, no matter what you try.

I think what brad was getting at, and I agree, is that those people aren't really the folks you're reaching for. It's the normal, average decent human being who, unfortunately, in times of trial and uncertainty, gets caught up in the bed-wetting yowling from the wingnut brigade about whoever is the anti-American Booger Man this week. The key, I think - and where, I think, the Democrats keep stumbling - is convincing the average American he has more in common with "the other" than the racists say s/he is different.

Some folks, though, are just lost causes and need to be treated as such.

Drop out? Maybe--though I would wonder if this isn't a case of 'give 'em enough rope.' But then I think about Jesse Helms' loooong career.

In other words, this guy sounds like he'd be a heaping pile of embarrassment and a detriment to those who voted for him. But looking at Jesse Helms and a few others like him, one wonders if that's a factor.


Which of the Michael Moore statements do you deny? I don't have all day, but will respond....What do you give me when I prove what I said? A six pack of Brooklyn Pennant Ale might suffice.

It's not supposed to be about seniority, it's supposed to be about revolving service. Democracy isn't about majority rules, that's parlementary procedure. Democracy is about taking turns, like in kindergarten. That's why we have more than one election.

Phantom, backing up your statements is not something that is rewarded with beer in the reality-based community.

If you are going to smear people without providing citations to back up your accusation, you are committing a slander. Do you want to be thought a slanderer or are you going to behave like a decent person and back up your statement with something more than a glib remark about your lack of time to respond properly.


Please grow up and don't get militant over things said in jest.

Which statement are you saying is untrue? The statement that there is a human being named Michael Moore, or is it certain of the quotes attributed to said rotund person, and if so could you please identify which statements it is that trouble you.

I am here to serve. Just define the question.

Looks like the venison version of Rilke's "Archaischer Torso Apollos":
denn da ist keine Stelle,/ die dich nicht sieht. Du musst dein Leben andern. (...for there is no place that doesn't see you. You must change your life.)


There is nothing immature or militant about asking you to tell the truth.

The thought that the Iraq "resistance" is the "equivalent of the Minutemen"

Those stupid enough to believe that the Afghan invasion was in order to build an oil pipeline there

The thought that those on the United plane that went down were "white wimps" and that if there had been "some more blacks" that the plane could have been successfully recaptured.

All three statements are from Moore.

Posted by: The Phantom | September 25, 2006 at 01:13 PM

That is what you said.

Back your claim up with a citation.

Do people really say "shiftless"?

Yes. I do, but as a criticism of specific people, including myself -- not as a racial stereotype. It's a southern-ism, but it's not inherently racist.

And, to supplement cfrost's helpful examples of hunting regs, the phone check-in option in Virginia is pretty new, only for the last two or three seasons. In Allen's era it was all done in the flesh (so to speak) at weighing stations. So I guess he must have pulled his nauseating prank after the weigh-in.


I can't believe that you actually question these statements. They're not exactly a secret.

Equating "Resistance" to the Minutemen
The equating of the Iraqi "resistance" to the Minutemen...may be found on here, Mr. Moore's own website

The Pipeline Plot
As respects the allegation that a major reason for the Afghan War was to build an oil pipeline, I will show you this written reference to the "Farenheit 9/11 " film, in which there is a segment of some minutes that deals with the theory that a major reason for the war was to build a pipeline. I heard this conspiracy theory when I rented the movie.

"White Wimps" on United 93 and Other Hijacked Planes
Columnist Yasmin Alibhai-Brown of The Independent (UK), in January 2003, wrote, "I took my son to see Michael Moore live at the Roundhouse, in North London, before Christmas. The U.S. radical and author of the best-selling book 'Stupid White Men' was (mostly) clever, funny, angry, sharp, iconoclastic and skeptical about the lies and humbug processed by the U.S. government and big business. ... What we did not expect was to feel so enraged at one point that we almost walked out. It was when Moore went into a rant about how the passengers on the planes on 11 September were scaredy-cats because they were mostly white. If the passengers had included black men, he claimed, those killers, with their puny bodies and unimpressive small knives, would have been crushed by the dudes, who as we all know take no disrespect from anybody. ..."

I'd give you a direct link to this, but you have to be a registered user to obtain the full article. If you wish to read the entire article, go to the Independent site, become registered, and enter the author's name with keywords. It's there.

On this last, truly reprehensible quote, Christopher Hitchens wrote "In a recent interview, he [Moore] yelled that if the hijacked civilians of 9/11 had been black, they would have fought back, unlike the stupid and presumably cowardly white men and women (and children). Never mind for now how many black passengers were on those planes—we happen to know what Moore does not care to mention: that Todd Beamer and a few of his co-passengers, shouting "Let's roll," rammed the hijackers with a trolley, fought them tooth and nail, and helped bring down a United Airlines plane, in Pennsylvania, that was speeding toward either the White House or the Capitol. There are no words for real, impromptu bravery like that, which helped save our republic from worse than actually befell."

The full Hitchens article may be found here

The Moore "white wimps" quote was very widely commented on in the worldwide media, with the notable exception of the NY Times, or the major TV networks, which I believe never mentioned it.

Let me take these one at a time, Phantom.

1) Moore says, "The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not "insurgents" or "terrorists" or "The Enemy." They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow -- and they will win."

This is true. It isn't really in any doubt. From the perspective of the Iraqi people, the Americans are the foreign occupying force. Do you deny this?

2) Moore made a statement that you don't agree with, but I don't think it's particularly inflammatory. There are multiple interests at stake in any war, everyone from weapons manufacturing concerns to contractors and people who want a share of the spoils. There are also national interests of other countries that may cause them to align one way or the other, or participate as the case may be. To suggest that an oil pipeline was the only goal, is a bridge too far for me, but to say that oil was a concern is probably obvious to anyone who realizes that Hamid Karzai worked for Unocal.

3) I can't credit a bunch of second and third-hand reports, even if "widely commented on in the worldwide media" with the notable exception of credible ones. Christopher Hitchens is not credible.

Put #3 to a side, and tell me, where's your beef now?

Phantom: It is widely commented on the worldwide media that George Bush said, "the constitution is nothing but a goddamn scrap of paper." Do you believe he said that?


I won't debate the points with you. We won't agree, and the "conversation" will be a typical internet screamfest.

And I'm not digressing to other things either.

I've proven everything I said, and your answer is evasiveness. Maybe you can now say that Moore was misquoted on his own website.

The Moore "white wimps" quote was made by a journalist, and printed in a newspaper deeply hostile to GWB and the Iraq War. If you can't accept that, then I have nothing to say. Opionions about Hitchens do not count. I have an original eyewitness account, and if you can't accept that, then there's really nothing more to say.

A bientot,


Phantom, you're a pro at this, I see.

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