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April 29, 2008

Oklahoma anti-choicers champion tube rape: Forced ultrasounds for abortions

Anti-choicers in Oklahoma want to force women to undergo ultrasounds in order to obtain abortions.

These are non-therapeutic ultrasounds that are imposed for the sole purpose of showing the woman a picture of her own fetus.

The height of arrogance anti-choice arrogance is on display in this legislation: 'Excuse me, lady, you say you want an abortion. Did you realize that there's a fetus in there? You don't know what you're doing. Let me stick this tube into you, so that you can be competent to make a decision.'

The law requires the doctor to use whatever form of ultrasound that will yield the best pictures:

Under the guise of obtaining informed patient consent, this new law requires doctors to withhold pregnancy termination until an ultrasound is performed. The law states that either an abdominal or vaginal ultrasound, whichever gives the best image of the fetus, must be done. Neither the patient nor the doctor can decide which type of ultrasound to use, and the patient cannot opt out of the ultrasound and still have the procedure. In effect, then, the legislature has mandated that a woman have an instrument placed in her vagina for no medical benefit. The law makes no exception for victims of rape and incest. [Alternet]

Fun fact: The short-serving Bush Birth Control Czar Eric Keroack made name as a pioneer in the field of agitprop ultrasound.

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"In effect, then, the legislature has mandated that a woman have an instrument placed in her vagina for no medical benefit."

I'm guessing more than one legislator has already beaten off to this image.

Oklahoma, like many "red" states, is also known for spectacular rates of domestic and child abuse, which the state shows little interest in addressing. Then of course, there's the number of mothers and children living in bone-grinding poverty, so on and so forth. But they really, truly love their fetii there.

"First, do no harm"

Seems like that might be an out for some doctors. And I don't mean as an excuse for not performing abortions.

Gaia Forbid that the empowered woman sees something that contradicts the "lump of cells" description from the Planned Parenthood pamphlet.

How does seeing a image of the fetus that is going to be aborted interfere with the woman's choice?

Of course this is the pro-abortion crowd that wants to shut down the pregnancy crisis center that offer ultrasounds for free to woman considering a abortion.

We oppose coerced ultrasounds. Women should never be forced to undergo frivolous pseudo-medical procedures in order to get legitimate health care.

health care = abortion?
forced to undergo frivolous pseudo-medical procedures
I take it you also object to drug and alcohol testing by the police and employers.

"Of course this is the pro-abortion crowd that wants to shut down the pregnancy crisis center that offer ultrasounds for free to woman considering a abortion."

Actually, we just want CPCs to be honest with their clients. Yes, they offer free ultrasounds, but often no one in the facility is trained to actually read the ultrasound -- so they can say, "look, here's your baby!," but they can't give actual health care (i.e., tell if there's something wrong with the pregnancy). They lead women to believe that they're medical establishments when they're not. They offer "help" that they can't follow up on.

It's not that they need to be shut down. They just need to be honest.

I'd like to force neocons to go through a psychological test to determine sociopathy or and other pathological tendencies.

I'd like to force neocons to go through a psychological test to determine sociopathy and other pathological tendencies.

but they can't give actual health care
As opposed to Planned Parenthood?

Teen died after RU-486 abortion at Planned Parenthood

I wonder if they are trying to make an abortion traumatizing so their arguments that abortions are bad for women come true.

"I take it you also object to drug and alcohol testing by the police and employers."

Yes. In most situations.

Lindsay knows logic, so she can see through the bullshit you get distracted by because it plays to your preconceived notions that are little more then socially acceptable superstitions, and see what is actually going on. So I imagine she would be against stupid stuff like hiring people based on looking at their pee or requiring the state to stick a phallic object in women to punish them for having sex, increase the risk of psychological harm, and symbolically rape them for no medical reason.

but they can't give actual health care
As opposed to Planned Parenthood?

Teen died after RU-486 abortion at Planned Parenthood

"I'd like to force neocons to go through a psychological test to determine sociopathy and other pathological tendencies. "

WOW! there's peaceful tolerance for ya. God forbid someone might recognize the human in the womb and feel a twinge of guilt

health care = abortion?

Okay, have you done *any* thinking about the issue? Pregnancy, while natural, imposes a huge burden on a woman's body and significant risks to her health and her life. Yes, terminating an unwanted pregnancy removes that huge burden, and essentially eliminates those risks. That's caring for one's health.

Gads, what a stupid question.

Paul L:

Excuse me?

Do you know how many people die at hospitals each year? Does that mean that hospitals don't give health care?

Gads... Lindsay, did you lay a trail of StupidOs ("The Breakfast Cereal of Morons!") leading to your blog today?

The choice-is-not-OK OKies clearly hope that putting an obstacle in the way of, or an intrusion into, a pregnant woman seeking an abortion may make her seek it elsewhere or risk dying in childbirth before she'd submit to the ultrasound.

But more than that, they hope she'll see what they already think they see: a helpless little baby, and see that killing it would be murder etc. It is inconceivable to them that a woman could look at her pregnancy with open eyes and reasonably choose abortion; the only choice is between their understanding of morality and murderous nihilism. If you don't share their convictions, you don't have any, really, and so none worth respecting.

So PaulL. posts and reposts his link, as if we on the side of choice hadn't really thought the matter through. But we have, as has any woman who chooses abortion. To insist on second-guessing her considered judgment is an insult, here embodied in the ultrasound instrument.

Would these ultrasounds even have the presumed or intended effect? What do you see on an ultrasound in the first trimester that doesn't look like a blob or some sort of unlovable extraterrestial? If it's the old "abortion stops a beating heart" argument, well, so does cattle slaughter.

Fifteen or more years ago, I recall listening to NPR and hearing an interview of a politician who was proposing that any teenager seeking an abortion should have to see a therapist because, you know, the therapist could determine if the teenager was sufficiently mature to have an abortion. And I recall the guy saying, "And if the teenage girl is deemed too immature to have an abortion, she'll have to have the baby and raise it." You just can't argue with these people.

"Would these ultrasounds even have the presumed or intended effect? What do you see on an ultrasound in the first trimester that doesn't look like a blob or some sort of unlovable extraterrestial?"
Uh, the heartbeat and limbs-

"If it's the old "abortion stops a beating heart" argument, well, so does cattle slaughter."

Oh, that's good! Compare humanity to a bovine. I'll have to enter that in the journal of liberal health care.

Next up, infanticide. That would be post birth abortion for the technically challenged. I don't suppose you'd call that murder either.

"And I recall the guy saying, "And if the teenage girl is deemed too immature to have an abortion, she'll have to have the baby and raise it." You just can't argue with these people."

What are you, 12? Have you not heard of adoption? Does reason elude you all the time or just most of the time?

God forbid people accept responsibility for their own behavior. That would certainly mean the "It's not my fault" mantra would become obsolete, then what would liberals shout?

God forbid people accept responsibility for their own behavior.

They are. They're getting abortions.

So, I'm reading this while watching Fox News' Bill “Loofah” O'Reilly swapping reactionary happy talk with a couple of female “experts” or “commentators” or something whose principal qualifications appear to be that they are fellow troglodytes and fit the wingnut ideal of eye candy. The conservative understanding of what women are and should be is so completely fucked up that one has no idea where to even begin.

How did this even become a political issue? Abortion involves a private decision. Period.

Private. Like faith.

PaulL.,
Another gentleman who isn't afraid to sacrifice the rights of others.

While I do think it is important for women considering an abortion to truly think about the life they are preventing, I am insulted by the assumption that women aren't doing this already. Of course, I'm sure there is anecdotal evidence for women who have repeated abortions and don't seem to care. Still, I would need to see some evidence that this is widespread. (Also, don't pro-lifers argue that abortions cause depression/suicide/etc? Which contradicts the idea that women just don't care.)

When I got pregnant I was told by someone who had a similar experience that I should make my decision before I saw the ultrasound. This was not possible as the General Practitioner (this was in the UK) sent me off straight away to the hospital to make sure I didn't have an ectopic pregnancy - this involved an ultrasound. In the end the little bundle of cells I saw was pretty much what I knew was in there anyway and didn't really have any greater affect than thinking about the potential of those cells.

I don't know why we can't focus more on education to empower women to take responsibility rather than forcing them to suffer more trauma as punishment for their evil sexual acts. Women and men should, ideally, be educated about pregnancy, fetal development, contraception, sexual gratification (I'm serious) and the horrible messiness of it all before pregnancy.

Women do need to take responsibility for what they do with their bodies; men sure as hell won't - they don't have to bear the publicly physical signs of sex.

All GOP officials should henceforce have an enforced ultrasound performed on their skulls, to make sure that they actually have a *brain* in there.

There's been problems in the past, obviously.

If they keep it up with these moronic statutes, then maybe they need to be examined more carefully

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